Germinating cladrastis kentukea seed

[Marshall]

anyone have success getting this seed to germinate? I've tried a couple times with no success. Forget exactly how I prepared the seed, but probably 3-4 months of stratification and then sow. I'm going to try again next spring and subject the seed to about 4 hours of sulphuric acid to penetrate the hard coat.
But I'd like to hear any success story you have to offer

Same question for Gymnocladus dioicus

[Chooch]

From my own observations / experience with Cladrastis seed : 1) very important for it to be fresh 2) nick / hot water soak until swollen then sow @ 70 F . I have had no positive results with cold strat and I beleive acid treatment isn't necessary for cladrastis .
NOW with gymnocladus I still haven't cracked the code for reliable germination methods with that rock hard seed shell & the jelly like coating surrounding the embryo . I have failed so miserably that IF I ever attempt it again it shall be acid treament with FRESH SEED .
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"I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."
--Albert Einstein, physicist, 1930.

[Marshall]

Dirr comments in his propagation manual about gymnocladus seed "being about the size of a small jaw breaker and 2000 times harder" and further comments that best germination occurred after a 4 hour concentrated sulphuric acid treatment with 2-4 hours being ideal and then sow. Also says seeds can be stored indefinitely after collecting in the fall, applying the acid treatment just prior to sowing.

And it's about time for that mail person to don their Santa outfit

[Poohbear's Honey]

Just what takes care of that harsh bath in nature?
_________________
As you go around in life, make sure you're going the right way.

[Marshall]

some critter's digestive system

[Chooch]

Obviously in our area there aren't enough critters or trees for this genus to propagate because it is a rare find . An added problem with Gymnocladus is they need a mate for seeds to be produced . This summer I attempted a total combination of 60 G. Chinensis / Gymnocladus dioicus seeds with one seedling germinating and surviving. I did the nick / hot water soak but most of the embryos had died by the time I completed treatment .
Oh well now I have 2 young Gymnocladus dioicus attempting to establish on the property joining the largest 21 yr old tree .
MRG : Thanks for the SS TREATMENT that arrived late yesterday afternoon SO do you place those in the soil and they supposedly allow for easy transplanting of tap root producing plants ??? Please enlighten me for proper utilization . You shouldn't have but thanks again , old friend .
_________________
"I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."
--Albert Einstein, physicist, 1930.

[Marshall]

there's a couple ways. For fall sowing, I buried the pots in the soil of one of my covered rooting boxes after sowing the seed. For spring sowing I'll use a special tray to hold the pots and place those on a bench in the greenhouse. Here's some info on the pots and trays
http://www.stuewe.com/pdfs/deepots.pdf
Got about a 1000 pots in a few weeks ago and thought I'd let you try a few. Right on about those tap root seedlings. But I would think the pots would be good for only single growing season before a transplanting or up potting would be required. I have a bunch of burr oak seed sowed in these and then in the spring will sow more burr oak, several hickory selections, KY Coffeetree, and maybe some paw paws. We waited too long to collect some pecan and english walnut - the fluffy tailed rats got most of those.

[Chooch]

I'll tell you the easiest method for Pawpaw that I have found . Get a decent sized pot over 12" across (2-3gallon ??) with a decent depth ( maybe 10" to 12" ) and sow 25 to 30 sprouted seedlings in each pot . Let them grow for a couple years then wash the soil from the roots ; gently untangle the roots ( the water usually works well for that ) ; and transplant them bare root in the desired location ( with adequate soil moisture conditions ) OR in larger pots for one last season .
It is the least labour intensive method I have found for successfully growing asimina seedlings and they are much tougher than most people realize .
I am not fond of direct sowing seeds therefore prefer to initiate sprouting in plastic bags so I can see if I am wasting my time / speed up the natural germination process .
Thanks again buddy !!
_________________
"I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."
--Albert Einstein, physicist, 1930.

[Marshall]

Noted - Thanks for the tip.

metasequoia glyptostroboides (sp?) - have you success with any locally gathered seed? I collected some today, and then was reading over in the GW Conifer forum about some possible viability issues with North American gathered seeds.

[Chooch]

Regarding the metasequoia : I 've read the same and actually attempted B.C. Arboretum purchased seeds resulting in zero germination .
Seeds look nearly identical to sequoiadendron giganteum that are noted for notoriously poor viability ( 20% to 30% best case ) therefore I give these types of seed a 24 hr soaking then a cold moist strat of 60 days .
Sounds like what you are doing is well worth an attempt . Just make certain when you sow the seeds at 70F the top part of your potting mix has some grit to deter damp off problems / couple that with adequate air movement for added survival insurance .
Once I purchased meta seeds from Chilterns Seeds and they germinated about the rate I thought they would (20%) but I lost them all due to damp off . Sequoiadendron have the same issues so early sowing without adequate air movement usually causes seedling demise .
I love those ancient Metasequoia trees so much that we now have 5 on our property .... they all seem to possess their own unique character traits . I will be interested to see how you make out !!! Happy Growing !!
_________________
"I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."
--Albert Einstein, physicist, 1930.

[Marshall]

Update - and I hope I hit all the topics

The Gymnocladus dioicus which were bathed in acid for two hours - I got 15 out of 20 to germinate and grow.

cladrastis kentukea which were bathed in acid for two hours germinated about 100%. Previous attempts where like 1%.

metasequoia glyptostroboides - I got 5 to germinate out of about 1000 seeds sowed. I lost one for some reason and repotted the remaining 4 andy they are growing nicely now with one being 5 inches tall and numerous lateral branches.

I stratified the paw paws, but none sprouted in the bag. we planted 80 seeds and none have germinated so far.

The other day I removed a bur oak seedling from that 14 inch deep pot and looked at the roots. The tap root stopped when it met the air at the bottom of the pot and had developed a good amount of fibrous roots and I'm beginning to wonder how long I can keep the seedlings in this pot without being rootbound. The seedling is a month old.

I had mixed results with taxodium distichum - seeds stratified for 3 months germinated 50%. Seed soaked in warm water for a month did not germinate.

Laris decidua has not germinated.

Lindera benzoin germinated 100%

None of the three carya species have germinated to date. All were stratified 3 months.

I think that it.

[Marshall]

Couple more seeds to report on
Calycanthus floridus which was stratified for 3 months and planted 1 Mar has not germinated.

Celtis occidentalis which was stratified 3 months and planted 1 Mar germinated about 80% to date.

Chionanthus virginicus which was stratified for three months and planted 1 Mar has not germinated to date. If I recall correctly this may be a double dormancy seed.

[Marshall]

an update on Chionanthus virginicus - Last summer I collected some seed and placed them in a warm strat for 5 months, then cold for 4, crack and removed the hulls and planted, and got some germinating about 3 weeks ago. Not sure this is the proper method, but it's working.